Date: Sun, 21 Aug 94 04:30:06 PDT From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group Errors-To: TCP-Group-Errors@UCSD.Edu Reply-To: TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu Precedence: Bulk Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #179 To: tcp-group-digest TCP-Group Digest Sun, 21 Aug 94 Volume 94 : Issue 179 Today's Topics: Dos Computers (4 msgs) HELP UNSUBSCRIBE VIA N4SO/MCI MAIL INTERNET 4597267@MCIMAIL.COM (2 msgs) Send Replies or notes for publication to: . Subscription requests to . Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Aug 1994 08:50:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Klarsen Subject: Dos Computers To: TCP digest I find it interesting that many of you on these Internet ham radio "echos" are very hostile to the Disk Operating System and the computers that can use that operating system. I think for the most part the guys most vocal about the evils of DOS are using computers bought for them to use by others, often the tax payers of the state or the country. I know the moderator of this excellent tcp-group has a whole bunch of computers to use...that is his job. But Brian doesn't tell me how bad my computer is. I think this is because he knows there are a lot of hams in this country who do not have a SUN computer. I am a ham with a masters degree in EE. I have had a lot of computers bought for/by me in the workplace. They were very nice. But I could not USE them for ham purposes. The US Army is not into letting you bring your Silicon Graphics Indego computer home for week ends. And in the good old days of 1 mip VACS they were way too large. But I did buy for ham radio purposes my first computer, a Radio Shack Level 1 with expansion board. A full 32k of ram. It was a lot of fun but had big problems. In 1985 I bought a XT clone. It was the first REAL computer I ever owned. I still have it and use it a bit to burn e-proms. I learned DOS and got an assembler program and played with debug and assembly language programing. A friend has a tag line that says: Real programers use copy con program.exe Well that is a bit difficult to do but in concept it is possible. Anyway I did get to C and things began to look up. I wrote some useful software. Now I own a 88486-66 computer with 16 meg of ram and run windows and have a lot of free ham software and commercial software I purchased. I use Word for Windows version 2.0c because it makes this DOS computer a desk-top publisher. I do that while my f6fbb packet bbs is working, my jnos is sending an ftp out and my telephone bbs is being used. Those of you that hate DOS, what kind of computer do you use at home? Well that is what hams have. I still have users with Commidor 64 computers. But most now have a DOS of some size. The idea that to be good you must have a Indego is false. The facts are if you write ham software for a SUN station you will not be able to give it away. There are just not many in homes yet. 73, de karl k5di ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 1994 11:28:54 -0400 From: "Brandon S. Allbery" Subject: Dos Computers To: Klarsen In your message of Sat, 20 Aug 1994 08:50:59 MDT, you write: +--------------- | Those of you that hate DOS, what kind of computer do you use at | home? Well that is what hams have. I still have users with Commidor 64 | computers. But most now have a DOS of some size. +------------->8 (the above in re: DOS vs. Sun/SGI/whatever) If only that were the issue... the flames start when people insist that that PC or etc. should be used to run NT or OS/2 or Linux, etc. ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH [44.70.4.88] bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org Linux development: iBCS2, JNOS, MH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 1994 14:27:49 +0100 From: "Brian A. Lantz" Subject: Dos Computers To: Klarsen On Sat, 20 Aug 1994, Klarsen wrote: > I find it interesting that many of you on these Internet ham > radio "echos" are very hostile to the Disk Operating System and the > computers that can use that operating system. I would say that "hostile" is a bad choice of words for this. Many have there problems with MSDOS, but I wouldn't say that I have seen "hostility". > Those of you that hate DOS, what kind of computer do you use at > home? Well that is what hams have. I still have users with Commidor 64 > computers. But most now have a DOS of some size. As Brandon pointed out, the box is probably INTEL, the "debate" is the OS on top of it. Remember, there IS no such thing as a "DOS computer". It may RUN DOS, but the computer is NOT tied to a particular OS. I have at home an INTEL-compatible machine, that runs Linux. DOS does not in any way describe my computer. Is this "hostility"? No, just personal preference.... ----------------------------------------------------------- Brian A. Lantz/KO4KS brian@lantz.cftnet.com REAL PORTION of Microsoft Windows code: while (memory_available) { eat_major_portion_of_memory (no_real_reason); if (feel_like_it) make_user_THINK (this_is_an_OS); gates_bank_balance++; } ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 94 14:36 PDT From: bruce@pixar.com (Bruce Perens) Subject: Dos Computers To: TCP digest , Klarsen I write shareware for DOS systems, but they are palmtops. I guess I would get hostile if you wanted me to write a networking system for DOS. It's a poor vehicle for the task and would be painful to do. Like many other programmers with an investment in 386 hardware and no real reason to stick with a Microsoft OS, I put Linux on my "DOS" machine. That made it a lot easier to work with. My wife runs Windows on her computer - she's not a programmer and curls her lip at command-line interfaces. I'm sorry, but those DOS systems are doomed to remain running packet terminal programs to connect to more sophisticated systems or at best NOS. The programmers are going to insist on Windows at a minimum. Last week, Fry's had a "loss-leader" sale. Connor 1 Gigabyte disks for $500. There's not that much motivation to keep one's computer small any longer. Bruce AB6YM ------------------------------ Date: 20 Aug 1994 15:52:53 GMT From: jvincent@wellfleet.com (Jim Vincent,Wellfleet Field) Subject: HELP To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu HELP ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 1994 17:21:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Ho Lai Fong Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE To: tcp-group@UCSD.EDU UNSUBSCRIBE hlf@ecst.csuchico.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 94 11:23 EST From: Charles K Brown <0004597267@mcimail.com> Subject: VIA N4SO/MCI MAIL INTERNET 4597267@MCIMAIL.COM To: TCP-GROUP DELETE 4597267@MCIMAIL.COM TCP-GROUP THIS IS THE THIRD REQUEST TO BE TAKEN OFF THE TCP-GROUP MAILING LIST. I SENT A REQUEST LAST WEEK AND RECEIVED A REPLY BUT AM STILL RECEIVING MSGS FROM TCP-GROUP. MY SECOND REQUEST SAYS THAT I AM NOT ON THE MAILING LIST. HOWEVER, AS OF TODAY, SATURDAY I RECEIVED ABOUT 5 MSGS FROM TCP-GROUP. PLEASE DELETE ME FROM YOUR LIST. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 94 19:18 EST From: Charles K Brown <0004597267@mcimail.com> Subject: VIA N4SO/MCI MAIL INTERNET 4597267@MCIMAIL.COM To: TCP-GROUP KURT FREIBERGER, I ALREADY SENT A MSG TO THE CORRECT ADDRESS. AFTER THE ROBOT REPLIED THAT I HAD BEEN TAKEN OFF THE LIST, I STILL RECEIVED INCOMING MSGS FROM TCP-GROUP. YOUR MSG WAS SUPERFLUOUS. ------------------------------ End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #179 ******************************